Transcript of Conversation

Punch            Applicant
Judy               Respondent

Transcript of conversation between Father and Headmaster of L’s school

P S:   Good Afternoon. P S speaking.
GC:    Hello yes. This is MMMMMM here.
PS:    Ah! Hello Mr. MMMMMM.
GC:    Er. Hello. Yes erm. I just to quite clear as to your position in regards to er me picking up L last Wednesday.
PS:    Yep.
GC:    Erm, I mean were you preventing me from taking L out the school.
PS:    No, not at all. I was just trying to, erm, explain to you that what that mum had been in and had shown some concerns and we had contacted the centre and they had said. You’re quite within your right but just explain to you that the advice would be for that particular night not to. We just relayed the centre’s advice. I only had a chat to you. When we were talking we said that I can’t stop you and I wouldn’t even try to. I just wanted to advise you on to what had been said by mum and what the centre said. And of course you chatted to the centre both times. Then you made your own decision. But I didn’t prevent you and I wouldn’t have prevented you.
GC:    Okay but did the mother have some legal documents did she? That sugggested I couldn’t take L out of the school.
PS:    Well if she had some legal documents then you would have been prevented. But she didn’t have any. So I was just relaying advice to you.
GC:    What L’s mum’s advice?
PS:    Well I relayed what mum had said. The concerns that she raised.
GC:    What concerns does she have for me to take L out of the school.
PS:    Well she was making all sorts of comments and accusations and things like this. And said really we just wanted to check with the centre that they didn’t have anything because we didn’t have anything. And they said No, Mr MMMMMM is within his rights. But as you know yourself that they suggested that in the circumstances for you to not take L. So we just sort of relayed that.
GC:    Sorry which circumstances. I don’t quite understand.
PS:     Whatever the circumstances were that you chatted on the phone to the centre. What did the centre say to you? Didn’t they advise you not to take. They said you were quite within your right. But the advice was not to. And I’d said to you, well in those circumstances that mum is not wanting you to and the centre have said it might be advisable not to. They were the circumstances. I was just relaying those to you.
GC:    I am not quite clear on this. So I can take L out and there is nothing preventing me taking L out apart from the mother making allegations, which she hasn’t even relayed to the contact centre.
PS:    Yeah. Well the thing is…
GC:    I mean I went to the contact centre, deposited my passport….
PS:    That’s right, yeah.
GC:    I came to the school to collect my daughter and I’ve been told well sorry we’ve got to ring the mother because the mother has banned you from taking L.
PS:    Didn’t you come quite early?
GC:    I came 5 minutes early.
PS:    I thought Mrs. Jacobs said you were there at quarter to three.
GC:    No. I came at ten past three.
PS:    Well the impression was that you came quite early.
GC:    I just wanted to come 5 minutes early to avoid confrontation with the mother.
PS:    Yep.
GC:    Because you might not know this. For the past seven weeks. Right through the whole summer holidays, I haven’t seen my daughter at all.
PS:    You told me that.
GC:    Well anyway that’s the position and I thought, what’s going on?
PS:    The bottom line from the school is, we have absolutely no legal right whatsoever to prevent you doing anything. So long as your passport is deposited and in the event there is no legal paper. I think the secretary rang up for some sort of clarification.
GC:    And then she rang the mother up.
PS:    No I don’t think she rang the mother up.
GC:    No she rang the mother up.
PS:    Not to my understanding.
GC:    No, she rang the mother up and the mother rushed to the school.
PS:    Erm. I am not aware of that.
GC:    I think you had best confirm that with your secretary because of all the allegations the mother’s made and she informed your secretary to ring up the mother if MMMMMM comes to the school at all.
PS:    You’re entitled to take your daughter on a Wednesday.
GC:    She hasn’t relayed that to you.
PS:    Who hasn’t?
GC:    Your secretary.
PS:    Relayed what?
GC:    What the mother said to her.
PS:    No.
GC:    No? But you’re the headmaster shouldn’t you be made aware of things like that?
PS:    Mother had already been to see me earlier in the week.
GC:    Oh, right. And what did she say?
PS:    Erm. She just sort of said that she didn’t want you to take L. And I said well I am not in any legal position to stop you.
GC:    Yeah.
PS:    And that’s about it.
GC:    The legal position is if she wants to stop me having contact with L, she should go back to court, get a court order and do that.
PS:    I understand that completely.
GC:    It’s me that’s actually going back to court because she is refusing to comply with the court order.
PS:    That’s right. You were telling me that. I think the centre had sort of said to you, we advise…
GC:    I don’t think that’s quite right actually. I am just thinking, why is it like this?
PS:    Erm to be quite honest the only role the school had in all of this was to avoid any public confrontation
GC:    You advised me I think it’s for the best that you don’t take L.
PS:    Only because I was only repeating what the centre had said. Because rightly or wrongly they sort of said that this all goes down on a record. I don’t even know what record it was. If you remember I said to you I know it has been very difficult for you but I think you have behaved in an exemplary manner. That the court should take into consideration when anything is mentioned. That you avoided upsetting L and you avoided a public confrontation. Very commendable.
GC:    Well I did try to avoid a confrontation because I tried to take L out of the school 5 minutes early.
PS:    Yep
GC:    Not half an hour early. Just to avoid the confrontation with the mother, which I explained to your secretary.
PS:    Yeah
GC:    I think that has been the difficulty throughout. It’s the actual meeting with mother.
PS:    I do know that next Wednesday as long as the condition of the passport being handed in there will be absolutely no recommendation or no suggestion or no sort of ringing anybody. We rang last time just to see. Mother had said you weren’t allowed to. So we have got to see legal papers. So we rang up just to check. Because sometimes these people don’t always hand things through that they should do.
GC:    Yeah. Okay but now she hasn’t even been to court. Not that I’m aware of anyway.
PS:    Yeah, not that I’m aware of.
GC:    I haven’t actually gone to court.
PS:    I know you told me that you had were going to court at the end of this month weren’t you.
GC:    Yes, I’ve got a court date set up.
PS:    Yeah. So really we don’t have a position in this at all.
GC:    Yeah.
PS:    And you know erm. If it does go to court and a legal paper is produced which says you are not allowed then we would have a position but until then we haven’t as long as the passport’s handed in that’s the only recommendation we’ve been give. But mother was telling us other things. So we said we would ring the centre and check.
GC:    What, that she said she had been to court and stuff.
PS:    No, No, she never said she’d been to court.
GC:    Ah. Okay. I don’t know. If she has got a problem she should go back to court, air these differences and the judge will make a judgement and whatever he decides we follow because that is basically the law. We have to comply with the law. I have tried my best to comply. I know I came five minutes early last time to just pick up my daughter and avoid confrontation because of the previous confrontation with her bringing her boyfriend which I don’t agree with. For me to drop her off. And I thought maybe that’s the problem.
PS:    No. I am not aware of that. You said that the boyfriend had been abusive and threatening.
GC:    Yes he was abusive to me when because in the summer holidays there is no. the contact staff leave early and I have to have handover in the street basically
PS:    Yeah.
GC:    Anyway.
PS:    I presume you will be coming up Wednesday.
GC:    Yes I will be coming up then
PS:    I’m concerned wasted journeys all the time. It’s not good for anybody.
GC:    But, I have to come anyway because it would look badly on me. You know the mother would say I made L available for contact but the father never turned up.
PS:    Yep.
GC:    You know I have been up seven times throughout the summer holidays and it’s been a wasted journey. Seven times I have come from London to Liverpool.
PS:    Yes that’s right. I can understand that.
GC:    Okay.
PS:    I mean up to the school we don’t want to make the situation any more difficult for anyone.
GC:    Yes it’s difficult because you are being brought into matters which are like a personal dispute between me and the mother and L, which is not fair on you really
PS:    Well we know now that there is no legal paper. There is no legal document. There has been no decision by a judge therefore we’re not in any situation now.
GC:    Yeah
PS:    And we shall remain like that until something changes.
GC:    Yep. Okay well nothing will change until the next court hearing, which is the end of this month. Okay.
PS:    All right Mr. MMMMMM.
GC:    Thank you
PS:    Probably see you Wednesday.
GC:    All right. Thank you.
PS:    Bye bye
GC:    Bye